In my last post I posed the question, is a FLR fair? I enjoyed all the responses and was happy to see that there were different perspectives and opinions presented on the topic. The responses were thoughtful and I appreciate that. I have to say, I had a very specific view on this topic but my view has broadened a bit after reading your responses. I love when that happens :).
My initial thoughts were that a FLR is unfair. There are many aspects of a FLR that lead me to this conclusion. These include things such as the submissive husband does most of the chores (sometimes all), does not get the final say in any decision, has little control over the sexual aspects of the relationship and in many cases no control over his own orgasms. Additionally, he must always cater to the needs and whims of his wife and yield to her even when he feels he may be right. There are many FLRs in which he earns the majority of the money in the household, yet he has no control over the money and may even be limited to a very small allowance.
The above examples probably do not all apply to your relationship, but if you are in a FLR, surely there are a few that are relevant to you. Those specific scenarios highlight the unfair aspects of the FLR. " One poster, "Sublove,"pointed out that fairness does not matter in FLR; it is more about needs. "I'm-hers" had similar comments."Franklin" indicated that he enjoys being treated unfairly. These are good points. If you are entering into a FLR, you are subscribing to the idea of unfairness. You are buying into the idea that the female has ultimate authority and control over the male or submissive partner.
Many of you indicated there is fairness in the relationship because there are benefits to the submissive. Benefits that were mentioned were that it is rewarding to serve your wife, you receive sexual gratification or eroticism from being treated unfairly, and there is a deeper connection and happiness within the marriage. How I interpret this, is that many of you feel that if you take a step back and look at the FLR as whole, there is fairness. "I'm-hers" pointed out that perspective or definition of fairness can make a difference in what is fair and not fair. Others commented on this as well. This is good stuff!
After taking it all in, I still think ultimately a FLR is a bit unfair towards the submissive. What I have learned from your responses is that although there is unfairness, there are certain aspects that bring fairness, especially when you look at the overall benefits of the FLR. If you were to take a few days of a FLR and break it up into small segments and look at just those segments individually, you would probably see a lot of unfairness. For example your might see the husband taking orders from his wife, doing most of the chores, and pampering her. You might see him wanting to do something but being told no by his wife. However, if you glue all those pieces together and see the overall benefits, and if you were to talk to the submissive partner and understand his feelings towards that treatment, you would probably find that it is not as unfair as it seems.
Prior to understanding this I would have not inserted the words "a bit" in the first sentence of the previous paragraph. I also believe that unfairness is not always a bad thing. Sometimes it is needed to accomplish things and it is in the best interest of all parties. I'd like to end with a quote from "sublove" which I think puts a great perspective on the topic:
"But really, what is fair and why is it so important? To me, if someone is overly concerned with things being fair, that person is centered on him or herself too much. I believe strongly in what comes around goes around, you are what you eat, show me your friends.... etc. If you're always worried about what's fair then you will probably never have enough. If you go about the business of giving of yourself, (submitting, as it were) helping others, then you appreciate the things you do have and that creates happiness.
Thank you all for contributing to this post.
-MzKaylee
Back when I was just curious about FLR's with no real life experience to speak of. I was fortunate enough to meet a very experienced couple through a friend. Their FLR was strict, with many rules and protocols.
ReplyDeleteI was very interested in what I was seeing, but I did not understand much more than what could be seen on the surface. And so at that time many things did seem unfair to me. I became close with this couple and the woman became my mentor. She could tell that although I was enjoying my introduction to femdom. That I was uneasy with those aspects I didn't understand. And she took the time to try and help me, answering all my questions. But the best thing she did was have her husband explain their lifestyle and answer my questions about fair and unfair, right and wrong. And it was because of him that I came to understand that some labels just don't apply to femdom relationships. What I would have called unfair or wrong were neither to him. This is what he wanted, what he always dreamed of, what he craved and needed but had all but given up on finding. It was he that asked for a strict and demanding FLR. It was he who encouraged her to go further. And he that convinced her to put aside her inhibitions and push the limits of the relationship. He sang her praises, after all, it was the love of his life, his wife and mistress that had made all his dreams possible. Out of her love for him and out of love for this incredible lifestyle. They put in place some rules to monitor the progress, agreed on certain things that would always be enforced. And set out together on their personal journey.
I learned that to avoid many of the problems that come from these relationships. Is that from day one the couple needs to sit down and talk everything out honestly. When a couple starts out on the same page with set goals in mind. The chances that words like unfair or wrong will ever be used goes way down. I doesn't matter if the FLR is very demanding or very mild, what matters is that both people involved want the same thing. And still want the same thing as the relationship grows. Maybe even into something more or less than they ever expected. Open and honest communications are a must all along that way. Or an FLR just like any other relationship won't last.
Unfortunately most FLR's don't start out this way. As they usually start out with a woman who has probably never even heard of an FLR. Finding out that she married a submissive man. With needs she can't understand and definitely want nothing to do with. Considering these often rocky beginnings it's a miracle and a testament to FLR's that so many still develop into loving, enduring relationships.
Sandra,
DeleteGreat points. I relate a lot to your feelings of discomfort. Once one starts to get that a guy can need this it is so freeing.
I have a different perspective on FLR. I don't think it depends on a submissive male and an all-powerful female. I know that is the classic fantasy, but I suspect in reality more people are like my lioness and I.
ReplyDeleteI'm not submissive. I do enjoy surrendering sexual control. For lots of reasons explained in our writings, I felt that enforced chastity would be good for us. After we did this for a year, I suggested FLR (we call it FLM). We never considered it a practice that would make me a virtual slave. Instead, I suggested that we start with some rules and with domestic discipline.
Our goal was never absolute female authority. She hates that idea and so do I. Instead, FLR to us is a partnership where she always has the last word. I wear a chastity device all the time and she controls what sexual pleasure I get. We both love that form of absolute authority.
For the rest, I do the finances, we share chores, and I follow her rules and obey her when she tells me to do something. My point is that FLR is a consensual activity that has different scope depending on the people practicing it.
I may be wrong, but I believe that the people who talk about absolute power with all the accoutrements are more likely describing their sexual fantasies rather than a long-term, sustainable relationship.
Just my two cents.
Your words ring so true to our start mz
ReplyDeletebut as we move on the development of our flr it is an exciting feature of not knowing where it will go as it develops daily what do they say it's the journey not the destination xx
Nice post. Occasionally (fortunately not often) my husband will get a furrowed look on his brow if I hand him an unusually long to do list or the list contains something that he finds difficult or distasteful. If that occurs we have a "sit down". I ask him if he believes he is focusing on me (usually gets an admission). I ask him if he thinks he is being self focused (also gets a nod or soft yes). I ask him if he thinks it would be a good time for an apology (by this time he is back on track - the apology comes). At this point sometimes I discipline but not always. It partly depends on how I am feeling toward him at that moment. In either event I always sense a doubling of his efforts for the remainder of that day. He knows a second "transgression" will not go well.
ReplyDeleteMz Kaylee,
ReplyDeleteI'm honored you featured my thoughts in your post! The subsequent comments show how different every FLR really is. The are very few absolutes that have to be present in each one. We're all different thank goodness, or else the world would be a very boring place. Bottom line is that if an FLR is truly functional there have to be two consenting companions. Consenting is a conscious agreement. Approval, etc. And that can't happen without honest communication. Being able to be who you are and share what is at the core of your being is a wonderful thing. A real blessing. If a companionship is allowing for that, FLR or not, you've got the solid basis for enduring happiness. An FLR, if it's to function legitimately, facilitates just that sort of relationship. It's why I believe that those who participate in this lifestyle are so appreciative of it.
Again, sounds pretty fair to me!
Thanks again for sharing your valued thoughts from the Leading/Dominant side of things in our world!
sublove
I am enjoying this discussion and reading the many meaningful responses. It is nice to hear both the dominant and submissive sides weigh in on the discussion. Thanks to all who have contributed and I hope we hear from others as well.
ReplyDeleteIn my relationship I am the passive partner and my wife is the dominant.We both talk about this and it's not something I'm ashamed of it's just how are personalitys are made.Are FLR fits us perfectly so there is no problem with being unfair about anything.We have a balance in our marriage that we can both agree with and my being submissive to my wife just seems natural to me.I love your blog.RR
ReplyDeleteI also think that a FLR/Femdom in the way it is often portrayed, is definitely unfair and love is apparently not the main goal. Many kinksters believe that love shouldn´t be part at all in a BDSM relationship. Which I strongly desagree.
ReplyDeleteThe only 2 persons that would find pleasure in such a relationship would be definitely a true hardcore Slave that finds pleasure in surrendering everything and a Dom who is deeply and ruthlessly selfish. But for truly loving and caring Doms and Sub´s who have own interest (like every human being) as well, is definitely not the right thing.
I think that everykind of relationship should be based in mutual love, pleasure, caring and the unique needs of both persons.
Example: If I am a Dom and my Sub takes care in making my life easier and more pleasurable and I know for example that she has a hobby and would love to make a vacation in the caribic, than of course as a loving Dom I would take care that she has time for her hobby and that we can take vacations in the caribic. To me it is common sense and regardless of the kind of relationship, everyone should be really happy in it.
That's right. There is often a misconception that a FLR is a one-way street and only the Female's needs matter. This is not true. If the husband's needs are not taken into consideration, there will be little motivation for him to want to follow.
DeleteI think it is hard for many to understand that the husband is getting his (very deep and very real) needs met in this. Frankly I find it difficult at times when I am relaxing and watching him work his tail off. It is not something I myself would want to be on that end of. He does. Needs it in fact. I don't pretend to understand it all but am very clear that it is real and deep.
DeleteOn the surface it is not logical, which does make it hard to understand. It would be great to hear from a few guys on why they enjoy this. I also think many guys don't fully understand why they have this desire/need.
DeleteAs a leader in the FLR, there are things you can do to tap into this need and make it even stronger. I will incorporate this topic into one of my future posts.
This doesn't make it any more logical, and it's only one of the returns that I get.
DeleteB.F. (Before FLR), climaxing left me feeling empty and often depressed, as if I were a slave to my desires. A.F., orgasms are fewer but much more fulfilling. Now when I cum, I know that it is a gift that she wants to give me and I feel as if I earned it.
I love to please my beloved woman but I have own interest as well. When I climax I never feel empty and depressed more quite the opposite I feel happy, relieved and with a free mind.
DeleteI guess I´m not a true selfless slave but I am okay with this, because this selfishness protects me against abusive doms and offering myself below my worth.
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ReplyDeleteMz Kaylee,
ReplyDeletein a loving FLR between wife and husband, I feel the beauty lies in the absence of reciprocity. Fairness becomes somewhat irrelevant as both parties understand who is leading and why.
Yours Humbly,
NR
Thank you for this post, Mz Kaylee.
ReplyDeleteI can strongly relate to most the reasons you cited in the post.
One point of view I would add about fairness that I have come to over the years is that it is irrational to be a submissive but very rational to be dominant. If you think about it on its basic level, if faced with the choice of getting what you want vs. possibly getting what you want if someone else chooses to grant it, the rational choice is to get what you want, e.g. to choose to be dominant.
I believe that submission is a need more than a choice. I didn't choose to need something that I have to keep private out of fear of being viewed as a sexual deviant by the world at large. The needs just happened to be there and won't go away. In pursuit of having those irrational needs met (needing to submit), subs weaken their position at the bargaining table, and having to make some sacrifices in day-to-day "fairness" is a healthier compromise than feeling empty or unfulfilled.
On another level, for single male subs, if you take into consideration the astronomical male sub to female dominant ratio, a dominant woman holds every possible advantage both in role (rational/power) and being the more scarce/valuable resource. When trading a zirconia (male sub) for a diamond (female dominant), the imbalance must be made up somewhere, so isn't it only "fair" that everything else leans in her favor to even things out?
Take care.
Something I forgot to add but got sidetracked...
DeleteWhen we're young, many dream or fantasize about being the Queen/King, the Princess/Prince, the great hero, the chosen One, the champion of the people, etc.
I never knew a single person growing up that wanted to be an ordinary local peasant, the maid that serves the Queen/Princess, the guy that cleans up the banquet hall after the Princess's ball, the one who sleeps in the stables to care for the great hero's horse, etc.
The adult desire the accept short-end of the stick is so wholly irrational that I can only believe someone would willingly choose that role is driven by a need so strong that its value cannot be measured in conventional terms as it strongly defies conventional wisdom. Meeting that powerful of a need is truly of very significant value, IMO, enough to offset even the most blatant perceived unfairness.