The submissive mind is complex and not always easy to understand. Trying to make sense of submission can be challenging and even frustrating at times. If you have been lucky enough to have your husband confess his desire to be submissive, then I am sure you've experienced an emotional ride as you've tried to make sense of it all. It is a wonderful thing so I keep at it!
I believe that most men don't even understand the dynamics of their own submission. Countless submissive men are seeking to satisfy their submissive desires through online relationships or even visiting a dominatrix. It is no secret that a dominatrix clientele is mostly married men and I am sure there is no shortage of married men seeking out femdom online. Deep in my heart, I believe that many of these men love their wives and do not want to hurt them. So why are they doing this? In submissive men in particular, there is a strong nagging need to have their submissive desires met. When this desire it not met at home, they seek it somewhere else. To understand this concept even more, I recommend reading the Femdom101 blog by Kathy. She has first hand experience with this with her husband and has done a tremendous job at sharing her experience and thoughts on this. She has such an amazing and understanding view point.
The problem with these online or dominatrix relationships, is they are strictly kink based. It is not a true relationship. Love does not exist. It becomes kinky fun but when it is over, there is nothing. There is no fulfillment for the guy and so he keeps seeking more and more kink, only to experience short-term gratification. It is also very easy for a guy to be taken advantage of in these situations. How much money is he going to spend to chasing his desires?
One would think with such a strong desire, the husband would bring the topic up to his wife. That is a bit of a mystery to me. I suspect it has to do with embarrassment and fear of rejection. If the wife rejects the idea, then what happens? He is shit out of luck. Perhaps some of the male readers can share their thoughts on this. If you are a guy with these desires and have not told your wife, why have you not brought the topic up?
I certainly do not condone a married many seeking out these online relationship or visiting a dominatrix. It obviously is not fair to the wife. It takes away his focus on her. How much energy is he spending online which is energy that should be focused on her and his marriage? How much money is he spending on it, which is really money that should be used for more productive things? As he becomes more consumed with online relationships or porn, the chances are greater that communication and intimacy with his wife are breaking down.
If we as wives, understand the submissive dynamic, not only can we satisfy his desires, we can also direct his submissive desires toward more productive things. While the submissive dynamic is complex, it can be understood. Submissive desires vary for each man, but I believe there are many common underlying themes. There are many techniques, strategies, and tools that can be used to keep him satisfied and happy, as well as an obedient husband to you. It is important to employ these techniques regularly and not neglect his submissive desires. Often times, I think women in FLRs become complacent over time. Similar to a traditional marriage, a FLR can become too routine. As leaders of the relationship, we need to ensure this does not happen. We need to stoke the fire a bit every now and blow his mind, if you know what I mean. This keeps the marriage fun and interesting while also strengthening his obedience to you.
I first dabbled with the idea of FLR some 15 years ago with my husband. I did not know it at the time, but it was going to be a wonderful journey with a lot of twists and turns and ups and downs. Somewhere along that journey I became fascinated with the dynamics and psychological aspects of femdom and the submissive mind. That fascination made me want to learn and learn as much as possible and I had fun trying things out with Thomas. Lucky him! Through all this experience and learning, I've develop a pretty good understanding of the submissive mind and how men think and react to various types of control and kink. In my next few blogs, I will begin to share some of the things I have learned.
-Mz Kaylee
Thank you for this post, Mz Kaylee. Some of this applies to me directly but other parts do not, I will try to comment on what I can and have experiences with.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree that many submissive men do not have a strong grasp on their dynamics. I do believe submission is a need though. In many cases I feel that people mistake submission as a preference (sexual or otherwise) but I find it rather irrational to be submissive, so I can only conclude that it must fill a need to willingly make that choice.
I believe the fear men have of sharing this with their long-time significant other stems from a few sources. 1. A lot of men are poor communicators. 2. The needs make them feel abnormal and are embarrassing to share (it's easier to present them with to a stranger you may never see again). 3. Unloading this secret on a vanilla companion can lead to a lot of hurt feelings and complications.
I have known quite a few women who got blind-sided and felt like they were on the receiving end of a "bait and switch." Most of this is the man's fault for often going about this in a passive-aggressive or roundabout way. In any case, if they are not excited about the idea of dominance, there is often insecurity in the "Why am I not enough?" vein. More insecurities can build later if he doesn't begin to communicate well, e.g. if he stops wanting sex in favor of cunnilingus and not being permitted his own orgasm that can have a negative effect on intimacy unless she understands how it all fits together.
One of the common ways this manifests is when a submissive "sells" the idea of Femdom in various ways, often in the form of chores and benefits, but not often in ways that make her feel dominant, confident, or entitled to the more powerful role.
I was lucky enough to where I was introduced to D/s by the first very meaningful relationship in my life. She had many kinky needs/desires and spotted me as someone that would make a good submissive. The condition for our relationship starting was that I had to submit to her. I accepted and embraced my role. Unfortunately cancer took her from me before we married.
Over the course of our relationship I knew submission was a deep-rooted need of mine. After she passed I never again attempted vanilla dating and only sought out Femdom relationships from that point on.
Thank you again for this post.
Something I should probably add is that very early on in our relationship is that she assigned me the task of writing a new fantasy story for her every day for a month. The parameters were to write things I thought I would enjoy, explore things I was curious about, and to write about things I thought she would enjoy. I realized later that this was her method of learning my submissive dynamics, where I might want to go, and to keep me thinking externally about her needs and desires as well. I'm fairly certain many of the underlying themes gave her a good idea of what made me tick. I end up suggesting this task to couples that are new to the D/s dynamic, often recommending both parties write them and share them with each other.
DeleteGreat idea!
DeleteThank you for sharing your thoughts on FLR Mz Kaylee. I look forward to reading your follow up blog posts.
ReplyDeleteWell, this one is up my alley.
ReplyDeleteI am one of those "married men." I think you are viewing this through the lens of someone whose husband enjoys an FLR.
I have had life long kinky interests, BUT they are limited to fantasies in a role playing context. I only started reading DD/FLR blogs in the past few months. The more I've read these blogs, the farther I've been pushed away from doing these things in my marriage. The reason is because, rightly or wrongly, I perceive and feel real exploitation when I read FLR blogs like this one (no offense intended, you have been very cordial in accepting contrary views), RWDDH, Disciplinedhubbies, strictjulie, etc. I often see a mean-spiritedness (especially from one of your fellow RWDDH bloggers), and it turns me off big time. I feel far less exploited paying an agreed-upon fee than envisioning myself living as the FLR husbands I have read about live.
This is no knock on you. You've explained what you do in detail, and how it is what your husband truly wants. However, when I see myself being treated similarly, I feel a lot of anger.
I want the lack of emotional attachment to the domme, and I want it to be a scene--not real. I've never viewed someone beating me as "loving" or caring, but for whatever reason, it became a strong fetish I can't get rid of. I also purge some very negative emotions during a scene, emotions that I project onto the domme and which I do NOT wish to project onto my wife.
My wife and I started doing spanking play a few months ago, and I slid into this mode, and it really didn't go well. It completely freaked her out.
So, I think we are not all just generally "submissive." We have very different psychological and emotional orientations that lead us one way or the other.
"So, I think we are not all just generally "submissive." We have very different psychological and emotional orientations that lead us one way or the other."
DeleteThis is so true. FLR is not for everyone and I appreciate you sharing your viewpoint. The perspective that each person has on the FLR is key to the success of the FLR. If the female is mean spirited then it will not be successful. However, I will caution that many FLR concepts and ideas may seem mean spirited to an outsider, but they really are not mean spirited. For example, I just published a post from Mary on small penis humiliation. On the surface that is mean spirited. However, it is a type of humiliation that her husband enjoys and as she noted in her post, it brings them closer together. In the context of their marriage it is playful and fun.
Likewise, if the male enters the relationship with the attitude that he is being taking advantage of, then he will never be happy in the relationship. Submissive men crave the control and authority of their wife. Thomas is thrilled to serve me and wait hand over foot for me in exchange for the 'rush' that he gets from my dominance and authority over him and for all the teasing and attention that I give him. From his perspective he is living in a fantasy world.
You have stated that you are being pushed away from FLR/DD but it seems like you have some interest. What interests you about it? Have you visited a pro dome?
I should be clearer. I AM really interested in reading about FLR/DD and the pscyhological/emotional dynamics of how it works. I have definitely been pushed away from actually living that way.
DeleteI have visited many pro dommes in cities across the US going back to the early 1990s. Some I have had a regular client relationship with, some I have only seen once or twice. In all but a very few cases, I have greatly enjoyed their services, professionalism, and understanding of my desires.
There is a huge sexual thrill and probably some emotional one that I get from seeing them. However, psychologically and emotionally, I could not make it "real" the way that FLR/DD does. Basically, I can't mix love with FLR/DD (I can do role playing and separate the two that way). Once the punishments and the power dynamic become real, it does a number on my self-esteem and my pscyhe because in my own mind I truly become "less than" and retreat to a pretty dark place psychologically. I note that a lot of women who like FLR/DD talk about how quickly it resolves conflict and "clears the air." It would not do that for me. I'd be the one brooding in resentment.
This does not mean that I feel guys who are in FLR/DD relationships are "less than." Not at all. I have huge respect for any guys who find a fulfilling outlet for their submissive desires which works for them. It takes a ton of courage to act on it.
I guess for me, it's a huge leap to go from a potent sexual fantasy to a 24/7 lifestyle, and the more I read about it, the less it seems for me.
That said, I have come across one blog recently that has given me pause. It's written by a German woman and is called "Die Starke Frau" (the Strong Woman). It hasn't completely changed my mind, but it did show me that there is a way to do all this that feels far more loving and caring than what I see on all of the other FLR/DD blogs. Thus, far, I am very impressed with her.
You have to do what works best for you. Every relationship is unique. The fantasy/role play is fine if it works for you. Reading about FLR/DD is a great way to get ideas for yourself. However, try not to read into it too much. The best thing to do is if something resonates with you, give it a try. If something turns you off, don't do it. Until you apply the idea in your own relationship, you will never know if it works. I have done things that I thought were going to be great that turned out to be duds and Thomas has brought ideas to me which I was not so sure about that turned out to be thrilling. I have also learned to never say 'never'. What I mean by that is there are things that I am doing now, that 5 years ago I would have been turned off by. As we evolved together in our FLR, what appeals to us changes. With your interest in the kink, I hope you experiment with your wife. It keeps the marriage fund and brings you closer together. If you are still visiting pro Dommes, I hope that your wife is aware of it. It's not good to keep a secret like that from her.
DeleteThanks for sharing the website. I read through it a bit and liked it. She has some great viewpoints and thoughts.
Thanks. I'm moving away from the pros and moving into alot more of it with my wife. It's a process, but one that I want to have happen. I do like the detached nature of the pro relationship, but I have to try to get that through roleplaying (which can be tricky).
DeleteI've thought about this some more. I think for me, in an FLR I would face the same problem that guys with a lot of money face, i.e., "does she love me or does she love my money"?
DeleteIn this context, the analogous questions would be "does she love me, or my submission"? One of your co-authors at RWDDH posted this comment on on another thread on this blog:
"We entered this slowly but it works for both of us. He is a "free" person and if at anytime it does not (I don't mean to sound harsh but it is true) - the door is open."
I read that as the comment of someone who values her husband's submission, not him. For me anyway, that would be a real concern that would lead me away from FLR: i.e., I'm only as valued as my subservience.
A quick bit of input, Anon.
DeleteEstablishing and maintaining a D/s dynamic in a long-term relationship requires a LOT of time, work, effort, and trust from both parties, but it is especially taxing upon the Domme (she bears the brunt of responsibility for keeping the dynamics intact).
While there do exist situations where people consensually enter into a service-oriented relationship, these are more of an anomaly than the norm. In most cases of lifestyle D/s, there is a lot of love between the parties involved. While there may be a set of rules to adhere to that define the dynamics of the relationship, the amount of "play" type dynamics are often limited to a few hours a week. With that in mind, it's likely you'll spend the majority of your time resembling a chivalrous and well-behaved husband in a vanilla marriage. If there isn't that loving bond and care for you as a person/man/husband then there isn't really much to hold things together.
A housekeeper can be hired. A doormat can be purchased. Love, trust, and personal/emotional connection is unique and irreplaceable. Basically, in most cases takes way too much work to maintain a lifestyle D/s relationship without meaningful bonds.
In most cases where men struggle with this it is because there isn't enough trust/faith in being able to "let go" and allow for her to lead. There are situations where this isn't a good decision as well, if one or both parties aren't emotionally equipped to maintain it.
Some people disagree with this method but I have found often starting things small (e.g. in the bedroom) and slowly expanding D/s into more aspects of life, gradually working its way in as both parties get comfortable is often a good solution to address the concerns by both parties.
I hope this helps.
Thanks. Solid suggestions. BTW, your blog is really good. Your ability to delve into the psychology is top notch.
DeleteThank you. I enjoy getting into the thick of the mental/emotional side of things.
DeleteI have to say that I just read a post from one of the RWDDH authors about controlling her husband's masturbation habits. She put a SHOCK COLLAR on him and hit him with a charge to stop him. She claims to have the requisite experience in punitive electrocution.
DeleteTHAT kind of thing is appalling and makes FLR turn my stomach.
"One would think with such a strong desire, the husband would bring the topic up to his wife. That is a bit of a mystery to me. I suspect it has to do with embarrassment and fear of rejection..."
ReplyDeleteMy guess is that the reason that there is a fear of embarrassment and rejection is that the couple does not talk about sex or know much about each other's sex lives.
When we began experimenting with D/s play, it wasn't that difficult for me to bring up the subject because sex was a regular topic of conversation between us. We were both curious about each others' experience -- talking about this was part of the process of getting to know each other.
This is a terrific (and helpful) post. I think the idea that the submissive males desires are complex is so true. Some of it is almost downright counter intuitive. I think that is part of what makes it so important to understand. One thing that does seem oh so clear is that there are submissive men out there (maybe many!) who have this need/drive wired into them. Why not seek to understand?
ReplyDeleteYes, so much to explore..............
DeleteLovely and insightful comments...
ReplyDeleteDynamics was initially changeable. Submissive feelings are mixed with urge for ejaculation. As the relationship progresses desire for satisfying the wife becomes stronger then urge for ejaculation.
ReplyDeleteShort time orgasm denial gives a strong and frequent oscillation of hormones and emotions. A strong desire for a wife, is being replaced by a rapid loss of passion for wife.
Long term orgasm denial, gives stability to strong emotions. Dynamics gets much better.
After a long period of orgasm denial I have mixed feelings. I want to empty the testicles, but at the same time I don't like loss of energy and passion for my wife. Ruined orgasm and long term orgasm denial really help that the dynamics is good, without big fluctuations that really bother us.
Mz Kaylee,
ReplyDeleteI would like to say your blog has been a wonderful discovery for me. It's like having finally found a kindred spirit in the FLR world. Because our relationship isn’t mainstream. I just cant strike up a casual conversation with the neighbour lady down the block or with the women at work and compare relationship notes :) Your blog has been very informative and illustrative to me as well as a source of reassurance to me as "Joe" and I continue in our lifestyle of choice. It's nice to know that the community is larger than just us (it seems that way some times) and that what we are doing IS mainstream with others who share our lifestyle. Thank- you very much for sharing and continuing to share your experiences with Thomas.
As I continue to tap into Joe's submission and to grow my "management" skills in this area, I am learning that outside of his orgasm control, which is the lynch pin element to my husbands submission, most of my other useful tools that I am discovering and employing with him, that many of those other tools relate to playing with and enforcing some form of role reversal in our marriage. The more I make Joe "my bitch" so to speak the more willing he seems to want to submit to me and the happier he seems to be in our relationship. Outside of the home Joe is your typical male assertive type A personality. He has many employees under his direct management and is highly respected for his technical skills and leadership abilities. But when he steps into the house that all changes. I put on the pants and he takes his off - so to speak - when he gets home.
Some examples of how role reversal is working in our marriage and how I use it to tap into my husbands submission...
Joe exclusively performs many of the chores which were typically associated with women in the past. I no longer do any of the laundry and cleaning of the house. These are all Joe's responsibilities now. He is also required to plan and cook some of our meals (I'm the better cook and enjoy cooking so I still do the majority of that). He also does most of the domestic shopping. Its his responsibility to do the grocery shopping, bring clothes to the cleaners etc. He still does all of the things which are typically associated with men such as yard work, up keep of the car and house but he also he been supplemented with his "wifely" chores. He also hand washes both my panties and his own (another huge mind fuck). While he is performing these more female orientated chores, I make a point to inspect, compliment/critique his work. When he is doing an exceptional job I will reward him with a tender pat to his tush or a gentle rub or grope to his crotch or a soft kiss to the back of his neck. When he is doing a bad job I will give him a hard smack on his butt with my hand or a wooden spoon or a belt. I will also give him an occasional firm sharp slap to his balls if he under performs a job. He admits to being highly aroused by performing many of these chores for me, especially when I happen to provide him with this sort of physical feedback, So this messes with his mind that he is required to perform all of these womanly chores and that he can become aroused by doing it.
oh gasp!!
DeleteJoe is also required to wear woman’s panties 99% of the time. Doctors visits etc are one of the few exceptions. I am not out to embarrass and out him as the submissive in a public setting. He does not especially like to wear panties due to their symbolic nature, but when he does wear them it does help transform him into my submissive. So as result he wears them all of the time for me. Every night a choose a pair for him, for wear during the following day. I lay those out for him on his chair to put them on in the morning. Most of his panties are specially chosen to be of a very feminine style as well as extremely soft and silky. The silkier the better I have found. He finds great physiological conflict in that the silky smoothness of the panties next to his skin serves as a constant source of arousal to him. He cannot deny this effect on him as his attempts at erection (he's normally caged at all times) betray him.The strains of pre-cum on his panties also betray him. I frequently ask to see his panties at the end of the day, and I make an exaggerated point of showing him his stains and admonish him for getting his panties dirty. But he doesn’t really want to wear women’s panties because that's not what vanilla heterosexual men do. So it's a constant mind fuck for him to be dressed in panties and that's why I insist on them. It's a love hate relationship for him.
ReplyDeleteSince he is caged the vast majority of the time and is rarely allowed to orgasm (about 4 times a year - and I am looking at halving this figure going forward as I think he can handle it), he is constantly horny and looking for some sort of sexual relief. Since orgasms are not on the books for him, he achieves most of his sexual satisfaction through satisfying me orally. He gives me quite exceptional oral service and has come to enthusiastically enjoy providing me with my near daily devotion. I compliment him on his skills and stroke his butt gently when he gives me an orgasm. When for some reason he isn't invited to provide me with this service he is truly depressed. So denying him the right to service me has also become an effective discipline tool. Anyhow, since he is allowed very infrequent orgasms and since his cock has been mostly removed as a source of direct physical stimulation to him, I have compensated for this by providing him with his own special pussy. By this I mean that I reward him with various forms of anal stimulation when the situation warrants it and I feel that he is overly struggling with his inability to orgasm via his cock. Its a bone I will occasionally throw him to get him over the hump so to speak when he is over the top struggling with a desire to cum. When these situations arise I give him a good pegging and he has begun to develop abilities to achieve ruined orgasms this way. Its happened several times now, so its more than a one off type thing. My point with this is that I have taken away his male cock and have instead substituted this very female aspect of owning a pussy to him. This is a huge huge source of conflict with him sexually and mentally. Again he cannot deny that anal stimulation turns him on as he can orgasm this way and he is forced to beg for a pegging when he is desperate for relief and stimulation. But he does not really enjoy being pegged as he finds it once again not what heterosexual men should enjoy and engage in. So this too is gigantic mind fuck for him, and that why I insist on it being a part of our relationship. Whenever anal play is involved I can just see him transform before my eyes into this mental pudding of a submissive man. He is required to keep his pussy clean at all times and attractive to me (lightly perfumed for me in the evening before bed) every day whether it gets used or not. Most days its "not" but he needs to keep it at the ready for when I want it and should I decide to take it. This simple act of maintaining his pussy keeps puts him deep into sub space for me every single night.
You are Amazing!!!!!!!!
DeleteOther ways I tap into his submission is by having him shave his armpits and his nether regions (including his pussy). He is also required to keep the rest of his body hair short and groomed. All of this keeps him feeling and looking more feminine and under my power when he is in the privacy of our home. In bed I will stroke his smooth skin and whisper to him how beautifully sexy he looks and feels to me. It drives him crazy that he is now sexually aroused to be kept in such a state. I've placed him on the pedestal that men used to insist of women. He must keep himself looking sexy and silky smooth for my everyday enjoyment.
ReplyDeleteAngelina
Angelina, thank you for sharing your experiences and writing well thought out posts. The readers of this blog can learn a lot from the many comments you left on my various posts. I encourage all my followers to read through AJs comments on the various posts and add to the conversation. I have not been active on my blog for awhile but am beginning to get inspired to write again soon. Angelina - you are welcome to e-mail me at mzkaylee@gmail.com to discuss more.
DeleteGlad you are back! Such insightful and hot ideas here!
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