I want to thank Joan for bringing up the topic of 'the husband's time with friends,' in the comments in my March 28th post. For reference, here are the comments she made:
"I'm a little less strict about allowing him some time to be with his friends (they love the outdoors) because he does so much work. I'm flexible with certain expectations, but I'm won't tolerate things not getting done, if that makes sense".
"With job stress and Mistress Joan to answer to, he needs a break and earns the downtime I permit. With that said, he knows to conduct himself properly and avoid any and all problems, especially when the men are out in the forest camping and having a few beers. I think his friends are fairly sure of who exactly wears the pants in our marriage. They are very well behaved and gentlemen in my home.."
-Joan
When it comes to WLM, the question is not whether the wife should have control over her husband's social life (It's an obvious yes!) but rather how much control should she exert. Like many other things, there is no one right answer. It depends on the current dynamics of the relationship. In this post I'll share how I handle it in my own marriage and will present some considerations to help female leaders with this aspect of WLM.
Let me start by saying that it is surprising to me how many couples I come across that do not socialize together frequently. I am talking about everyday couples in traditional marriages. I know of couples where the husband does his things and the wife does her things and they rarely socialize together or socialize among their mix of friends. That is a problem and a sign of a troubled marriage in my opinion. You are supposed to marry your soul mate and best friend so why would you not want to spend a good portion of your social time with your spouse? Without time together, a couple grows apart and loses intimacy and that special connection they found when they first met.
Prior to WLM, Thomas and I did most things as a couple. We each also had our own subset of friends that we did things with on our own. I always felt that we had a good balance between those two types of socialization. However, one of the unexpected benefits that we experienced with WLM is that we spend more quality time together and are much more open in our communication with each other. Instead of sitting on the couch watching TV, he is often giving me massages, serving as my footstool, or doing other things to serve and pamper me. Our intimacy is much deeper then it ever was prior to WLM. When were together there is a playfulness and connection between us, versus us just sitting in the room together doing our own thing. The connection is hard to describe but it is definitely something that developed as a result of my control over him and his submission to me.
Because we've always had a good balance with how we spend time with friends, when we transitioned to WLM there was not a need for me to significantly alter his social life. However, I exerted control over it because that is my right and duty as his Goddess wife. What changed with WLM is that he is required to ask for my permission anytime he wants to do things with his friends. He plays sports and has weekly games and he must ask permission every week to participate. He knows that if he does not keep up with his chores or that I am not pleased with him for any reason that I will probably not grant him permission. Usually it is not a surprise to him when I say no. There have been a few instances over the years where I have punished him by forbidding him to participate in sports for several weeks. That has been a very effective punishment. He becomes highly motivated to please me in any way I want in order to get his privilege back.
He also knows and accepts that my priorities and his chores and responsibilities take priority over his time with friends. He will often turn down activities with his friends because he knows it would interfere with his obligations to me. His self-discipline in this area is a direct result of the WLM lifestyle and I believe is one of the distinguishing difference from a traditional marriage. As I noted previously, we had a good balance prior to WLM, but post-WLM, his obligation to please me always takes priority over his social life. The balance is still good but better swayed in my favor :) and he is happy with that. There are times where he will ask for special permission to participate in an activity that will delay his ability to do chores or tasks. If he is in good standing with me I will usually grant an exception but he knows to make these requests sparingly.
Thomas also asks for my approval when planning activities for us to do together with our mutual friends. Over time our closest friends have picked up on this and so now they usually just coordinate with me instead of him. I find it humorous that even one of his closest male friends will text me when making plans for his wife and I to go out with us. In recent years, it's gotten to the point where I just tell Thomas what we are doing and he accepts it without question. I get a laugh when his friend talks to him about the plans for the night and Thomas has no idea that we made plans. On the other hand, when it comes to planning an activity for just the two of us or vacations, I enjoy having Thomas plan it. He is great at finding fun things to do and finding good deals on hotels and airfare. I allow him to come up with activities to do but before he books anything, he needs to run it by me for approval.
Similar to Joan, I do not put many restrictions on what my husband can do with friends. He has a few weekends where he goes away with the guys for camping, fishing, or football. It is healthy for him to have this social life and I enjoy the time to myself as well.
The flexibility that I allow may not be best for all relationships. I can be flexible because my husband has good judgement in what he chooses to do and he has a good group of friends. However, as many of you know or may be experiencing, there are a lot of guys that are not so good with their judgement. Sometimes a wife may need to exert stricter control over his social life because he is spending too much time out with friends. This can be done by simply forbidding activities or a more subtle way is to schedule days and times where he is expected to be home. Another approach is to pre-plan activities for the two of you so that he does not have the opportunity to accept invitations from friends.
I also think there are times where wife may need to forbid her husband from being with certain individuals or work toward him transitioning away from the friendship. I've always preached to my kids to choose their friends wisely, because the people you hang with are the ones who shape who you are. The same is true for adults. If you are spending time with individuals who have bad habits or get into trouble often, then it is likely that some of that is going to rub off on you. If the husband has bad friends, then the wife needs to redirect him away from those friends. It is not an easy or comfortable thing to do, but it is better in the long run. The nice thing with WLM, is that the wife has the proper authority and influence to make it happen.
I do not agree with the idea of eliminating his social life all together. To forbid him from having any friends is not healthy. For long-term mental health it is important to have friends and an active social life. In the WLM, his social life should be encouraged and supported but with approval and influence by the wife. Depending on your situation, stricter control may be needed but the end goal is that overtime the husband is trained and conditioned to put time with his wife and her needs in desires as a higher priority than his social life.
Please share your thoughts and experiences on this topic.
-Mz Kaylee
The thing you said about keeping ones husband from certain bad influences is one my wife has done and would do again for me. After we married, I fell in with a friend who was leading me down all the bad roads I had been traversing before we met. One night he got me to stay out until nearly 4 in morning without calling to ask her if I could stay up past the curfew she had set for me. Stumbling in drunk as a skunk at that hour did not make her night. The next morning, she grounded me for a month, and as usual I had to call him and tell him. In this case, though, it was someone who she couldn't stand and had warned me about before. She said she wasn't going to put up with me going back to the way I was before our relationship, and would have me end the friendship if he caused me to start sliding back into it. So not only did I have to tell him I was grounded, but that our friendship was over as well as our days of hanging out. Me and him haven't hung out since then, and nothing like that has happened since. Though we will chat here and there when we see each other. She is fine with that.
ReplyDelete- Trent
Thank you for sharing your real life example Trent. You are lucky to have a courageous wife to guide you down the right path.
ReplyDeleteMy wife is my companion, my best friend, and my Queen. We share many friendships with other couples and She manages the social planning. She must approve what I am wearing when we go out together and sometimes She will have me change. She supports my individual time with hobbies and my own friends, but She knows She comes first. I serve Her because I crave Her feminine authority, approval and love, not because of fearing punishments. I accept Her superiority. Edwin
ReplyDeleteMz Kaylee's way of doing things seems very familiar. Like her husband, I have to get permission in advance for any social occasion outside the house. My wife is keen that I should enjoy such spells of free time but equally strict on the idea that it should be absolutely clear that they are privileges that are entirely at her discretion, not something I can ever take for granted.
ReplyDeleteIf ever she feels that I am forgetting where my focus should lie or getting above my station in life, she will take the necessary action. A permit to go out can be rescinded at a moment's notice; my social diary for weeks ahead can be emptied just because she wishes it to be so. It's all about concentrating my mind, asserting her control and keeping me in my place.
Controlling His Social Life - a must-do for women
ReplyDeleteHi Mz Kaylee!
Your posting regarding his social life were quite interesting. I agree that a man needs a social outlet but I know firsthand that his going out with 'the boys' needs to be well managed. One man within a group can can lead even the best trained husband astray. Female oversight is invaluable It's a different perspective, perhaps, but one with which I'm familiar. I'll try to answer any questions you might have.
Debbie
My preference and that of other women I know, is to be actively involved in scheduling and managing nights out for our men. Ladies, you don't need to be heavy heavy handed but you do need to be aware of what's going on:
Ask permission - David is to ask permission to attend a guys night out - permission can be revoked
When will the night out take place - once a month is adequate
Where is he going - a woman approved activity
When he'll return - a 12 midnight curfew is adequate
Where will the night out take place - adult entertainment venues are strictly prohibited
What type of entertainment - Dinner out, a sports event a car show are all good places
Who will be attending - no more than 4 - 6 guys, exclude 'bad actors' who tend to lead others astray
Debrief your man - what went on? Any misbehavior? Share comments with the other women
The dominant ladies I run with all have submissive husbands. We understand AND appreciate the strict control we ladies exert over the guys social activities. I debrief David after every guys night out:
- In one instance a 'bad apple' deft the group for a night of strip club hopping. He was drunk and couldn't account for a lot of money David reported to me and I in turn called the woman. He's no longer in the group nor do we want him
- In another was a camping trip that a group of guys organized for a three-day weekend of hiking and fishing. David went along at my request to keep an eye on things. David found that there was very little fishing and hiking. There was plenty of drinking and carousing with some local women. No more camping trips...
Consider inovling your submissive man with YOUR friends! Having girlfriends over for wine and cheese, served by your submissive gentlemen and perhaps, some of your girlfriends husbands. David really enjoys these getto gethers and has made many friends.
Debbie - always great to hear from you. You take things to a whole new level! Communicating with the friends wives is another layer of control which I've not done and find intriguing. I like your comment on how awareness of what they are doing is important. Also, the way you have him serve you friends sounds fun. I know you have a circle of friends in the femdom lifestyle, which makes these things easier to do. There is some subtle domination when Thomas is in the presence of my friends but I am not open about it with them.
DeleteYes, I do have a circle of friends that, to varying degrees, are in FLRs. That the women wear the pants in the family is well known. In another time a man in a demanding wife might be called 'hen pecked' or 'Pussy-whipped'. What the men do socially is arranged with the approval of the ladies. Sometime an idea for a social event entirely originates with the ladies. The guys have gone to the ballet, the opera, gone golfing, knitting lessons, Christmas shopping, and so on. We're arranging an evening of volunteering for our guys at a local women's group. When the women are in charge of things everyone is happy. There's a saying from a femdom writer “Men will only do the right thing if they don't have a choice”. Women don't need to go over the top to have a satisfying FLR with her hubby falling in line.
DeleteDebbie
Excellent, Excellent points here Debbie! I'm glad to learn that David did the right thing both times. Having the women plan the husband's social events is a great idea too. What about three couples meeting at one's house, and the women can visit, while three guys get together and do housework all afternoon while conversing, and socializing at the same time.
DeleteAs someone who just isn't very social, I've had the reverse experience of sometimes having a "play date" set up for me. My wife thinks I spend too long working at the office and will try to get me to spend more time with a friend's husband, or something along those lines. Last weekend I had an old college friend in town, and didn't really know much about his visit until she had already planned it all out with him. The idea that she schedules most of the social calendar for both of us is fairly normal, and it works out well when I'm busy with my job.
ReplyDeleteYou sound like my son and his friends. They just never plan things together so the only time they do things is when the mothers plan something. Lol! The balance between social life and work life is very important and you are lucky that your wife recognizes this and is doing something about it. Thank you for bringing this important perspective into the discussion.
DeleteMy Owner and i do almost everything together. We greatly enjoy each others company and our best friends as well as me being Her submissive wife. When we are out She also makes all decisions, including choosing and ordering for me in restaurants. She does like me to make suggestions for places to visit or things to do but She is always the final arbiter.
ReplyDeleteShe does go out socially with other friends and the expectation is always that i will come and collect Her afterwards. It is very rare that i will go out socially without Her but if i do it is always and only with Her prior permission. This also extends to visits to my family i.e. Her permission is required. That said, She has never prevented me, it is more the act of requiring Her consent that is important.
p
x
Thank you for sharing how things work in your relationship. I like that you are her chauffer. I am the same way with my husband. I rarely drive and I love it!
DeleteI'm in a similar boat like many of the guys regarding social time. Occasionally, I'll get a light spanking just before I head out the door. "A red bottom can help keep your mind focused," she'll stay. And she's right ... as always! Robert, a submissive husband
ReplyDeleteMz Kaylee,
ReplyDelete"There are times where he will ask for special permission to participate in an activity that will delay his ability to do chores or tasks. If he is in good standing with me I will usually grant an exception but he knows to make these requests sparingly."
This is how I operate. As long as my husband attends to his chores and remembers his priorities and his place I'll grant him exceptions. My philosophy is that a WLM is supposed to be a fantasy and fun for him too. If he's accepted me having authority as "the boss" and he shows this, there's no need to impose hard restrictions. Tonight Phil will get an orgasm, his first for the year. He already knows as an exception. Sometimes Phil knowing in advance is good. He's treated me like a true Goddess! I've been pampered the entire, often day without asking. He could have had lunch and played some golf with his buddies, but passed on it without a second thought. Tomorrow is going to be a true day of rest and relaxation for him.
Joan
With our marriage being the second marriage for both Tony and me, we came into our relationship with well-established friendships and friendship routines. In addition, we did not start with a WLM, but rather a F/m spanking kink.
ReplyDeleteWhile we both wanted our spouse to meet our friends, we also wanted to continue with our gender-limited friend groups; he had a bunch of guys he liked to hang out with, and I had a bunch of girls. I think this is typical even in vanilla marriages, and I also think it is typical for there to be some conflict over this time apart, and for the wife to have to rein in her husband to some extent. I have many vanilla friends where the wife restricts her husband's "time with the boys." So it wasn't surprising to either Tony or me when this came up in our marriage.
We came to the compromise of a limit of one night a week for each of us. I had been doing a Thursday girls night for years, and I was not going to give that up. Tony, who was a bachelor after his divorce longer than I was a single woman after mine, used to go out with his guy friends 3-4 times a week. Obviously, I put a quick end to that; he got once a week just like I did.
His group also was a lot wilder than mine, especially in terms of alcohol consumption, and at times his behavior was unacceptable -- either during his outing or when he got home or both. This was one of the situations that led us toward WLM; I began forbidding him from the drunken bashes with his buddies. While he didn't like it, he accepted my authority -- which gave me confidence to exert my authority more.
Now, like many other couples have described, he must ask permission for each and every social outing without me, and I have the absolute right to refuse him for any reason or for no reason other than exerting my power. Like others, his chores must be done and his attitude good or he doesn't get to go. I have mentioned before that he goes on about half of the outings to which he is invited, which is enough to maintain his friendships and also enough to bow down to my authority.
As I have related before, when he has misbehaved he sometimes is grounded and has to call his guy friends and tell them that he is missing the outing because his wife has grounded him. This may be his least favorite thing about our WLM -- but it also is a stunning admission of who wears the pants in our marriage, and I greatly appreciate him making that admission. It is one of the few ways in which our WLM is somewhat public.
I agree that it is important for all adults to have friends of their own gender and to spend time with those friends without their wives. I would never take that away from him completely. But I have trained him that the tings he used to think of as "rights" are now "privileges" that must be earned -- and time with his buddies is one of those.
Trina
Is it your rule when you make Tony call his friends to tell them he can't make it because of a grounding that he has to actually use the word/term "grounded"? Like, he can't word it in such a way to say "Yes, I messed up today and my wife is making me stay in." or anything like that?
Delete- Trent
"My wife grounded me." This is only when he has to break a date that he already said yes to.
DeleteTrina
I look forward to your guest post about discussing this dynamic with other wives. I take you're going to recommend this same rule to them? And I take it you're going to have these discussions with them whether Tony likes it or not?
Delete- Trent
One of the mistakes often made with newlyweds is that they maintain their same "single" social schedule after they are married. With a marriage there should to be some change and sacrifice of the social schedule to put a greater emphasis of doing things as a couple. I would imagine that is harder to do the older you are when you get married because the "single" social life and network of friends becomes much stronger. My husband and I were fortunate in that we met in college and so we hung around most of the same friends and we did things as a couple from the start. I would be curious to hear from others who got married later in life or after a 1st marriage as to how this melding of social lives worked. Trina's comment above is a good example and I think it is fabulous how she handled it.
DeleteBriefly to reply to Mz. Kaylee, we got married relatively late in life (well, in our 30s, if that counts as such) and there was a big difference in our friendship groups, which didn't overlap at all.
DeleteMy wife had a wide circle of friends from all stages of her life, whereas I was more part of a 'few but close' group of friends. When my wife assumed her authority over me, she made it clear - if she didn't cotton to any of those friends, I was to renounce seeing them. She would not do so lightly but she would expect her word to be law in this as in everything else (two people did not meet her standards). If I wasn't prepared to yield to her in this, what did my pledge of obedience to her will really mean?
Put like that, the logic was inescapable. If we disagree, my wife has the final say. I am then expected to obey and take up her reasoning as though it were my own. No exceptions. She will always listen in debate, will concede a point when she recognises that it is valid but once a decision is made, there is to be no further discussion and certainly no disagreement. The consequences for that would not be worth inviting on my part!
Thank you Trent. Your wife's approach is absolutely the way it should be in a WLM. You are a lucky boy :)
DeleteThank you, Mz Kaylee. She has even told me recently that she will not hesitate to ground me in front of my friends or with them watching. That hasn't happened yet, but just the thought of it is pretty embarrassing. Then again, seeing as how they already know since she makes me tell them anyway, it can only be so much worse.
Delete- Trent
Very interesting harmony of views here - very different people, females in authority and obedient males and yet there appears to be a common thread.
ReplyDeleteIt's a mixture of a few things - a wife-led marriage requires we men to train our minds to seek permission from our female leaders, even for matters that might seem mundane and even trivial to the vanilla world. It is not for us to second-guess, to make assumptions or to focus on anything other than the desires of the head of our household. The pay-off, of course, is the sheer gratitude and pleasure we feel when we have achieved well enough to merit a reward.
In my case, my wife shapes my time and my responses but in doing so, she also likes to shape my thinking, where it might naturally diverge from hers. She doesn't want a robot to serve her but she does want me to accept that my mind and body is hers to utilise as she see fit, not mine. If she wants me to see something her way, I am to do so not just without question but also enthusiastically. Conditioning over a long period has made the [process much smoother but it is a process that can always be improved and therefore one that is infinite.
Well said. :)
DeleteMz Kaylee: beautiful post! From the start, we socialize mostly together.
ReplyDeleteOne aspect I'd like to add is that She wants me to get involved with Her
friends, as i usually can help much more that way. I take interest in learning about Her friends, their situations, their children/family. It has taken a special effort for me to get good at this. Queen shares and comments with me on their friends' situation and i need to be able to connect all the details. Of course other women pick up that i'm the assistant/helper and some don't mind mentioning it.
Also, Queen encourages that my social life is also developed with Her friends' husbands or with men She knows. Of course i report Her everything and She has made me distance from inconvenient people.
She lets me keep an old group of friends from College, but of course She has access to my phone and can follow our conversations. i keep Her informed about other groups. i've also played sports and She let me socialize that way. For work, i've had a few times where things turn inappropriate, but i usually report this to Her on the spot and disconnect myself from the situation. I've learned to easily excuse ("hey, I have to take this call") and/or involve Queen; one day in Vegas i was reporting to Her and we ended up doing a video call so She'd assess the situation.
i love Queen and i love that She owns my social life. In the end, i know i have more friends thanks to this arrangement than i'd have on my own, as She pushes me to know people.
Thank you for sharing. Very insightful. I like that you take a special interest in getting to know her friends. There are very few guys that do this in a sincere way.
DeleteThe level of obedience described by these husbands is nothing short of stunning to me. Tony's obedience is much more transactional: He obeys to earn a reward or avoid a punishment. It is not out of pure devotion, as some of these husbands describe. Maybe someday ...
ReplyDeleteTrina
It's not always easy, Trina, I'll tell you that. There are days when I'd much rather be doing my own thing than placing myself totally under her authority. And yet....it's either worth doing properly or not at all. Half measures are hopeless, in my experience; they suit neither my wife (most importantly) nor me. So we've both worked at authority and obedience respectively and we've been greatly rewarded.
DeleteI too had the same mindset at one time. I didn't realize I was agreeing to WLM but only if it was enjoyable for me. For a few years now I'm doing it because my enjoyment is from serving my wife, and (at times) other women. This is where I absolutely loved A.J.'s guest post about laundry. She really explains well.
DeleteIt is a fascinating read here in the comments and it’s fairly consistent with my experience. My husband is internally compelled to do these things, I can’t recall a time I’ve had to have a heavy hand with any of his friends or social schedule being inappropriate. I trust his judgment because he has proven himself and I speculate that must be in part due to the nature of our bond that’s been built over time. We’ve been together 8 years and have spent a good deal of time together.
DeleteCertainly he’s had to scale back some of his social obligations and personal hobby time in order to be with me and our kids. And he has mentioned that he hasn’t always been at peace with that, he gets restless from time to time. However, I know he’s also found more fulfillment spending quality time with me because the return on that investment is far greater than a “night out with the boys”.
We have a tight circle of friends but none are in a WLM. The only times I’ll have my hand in things with him is when I see the other men in the group not supporting their wives in the way they should. I compel my husband to reach out and say something to them in that case.
Usually he knows to be on high alert and at his very best doting self when we’re with our friends- his job is to be the example and leader to make all the other men look bad compared to him. There is no doubt who gets treated the best out of us women, but it’s not done in any kind of humiliating or forced way, he just does it now.
He definitely is around sometimes when I have the girls over. He runs the get together so that I may enjoy myself and he knows that those occasions are priority number 1 for our family, outside of time with the kids. He has hen in his calendar and has everything prepared and cleans up after. A true gift for me.
Maybe because he is not naturally submissive. He spanked many women in his dominant days before meeting me!
ReplyDeleteTrina
Much like Marcel my wife has also made it a point to involve me with her friends, which also made it easier for them (and for me) to take over the weekly cleaning duties at their respective houses or apartments while they can socialize or be together. I will say though that overall my "social" life or "free time" has diminished greatly since she's expanded her authority, and I'm not sure how she'd respond if I told her I had a problem with that. At this point I barely have enough hours in the day as it is and I think she's (rightfully) taken my services for granted.
ReplyDeleteI can't begin to explain just how thankful I am for my wife taking control of my social life. She got rid of alot of no-good people I needed to be rid of. When my paycheck began going into a joint account I can't access without her approval, it made things much easier. I simply don't have the money to go out now, unless I prove to her that I've earned it, and deserve to. We are both happier now. I would much prefer to watch a re-run of Desperate Housewives with my wife, than listen to a group of miserable half drunk guys complain about their marriages. I can't help but wonder, if they would stay home more, start helping around the house, or offered to wash the cloth baby diapers, perhaps their home life would be more blissful?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you do when your husband rather not have a social life? I am afraid mine would simply use it as an excuse to never leave the house and meet new people.
ReplyDeleteMy husband is happier having a very minimal social life. So if that is his preference, I'm fine with that. I just added a few more things to his daily routines, and we're both content. If he wanted to do other things, I'm fine with it. But he prefers tending to things at home.
Delete