Unfortunately, I think this is the response that a considerable percentage of female readers may initially have when their significant male other introduces them into the desire for FLR based activities. I personally don’t think its at all true or that this is in fact the motivation behind his “special” needs. Lets be frank, 9 times out of 10 it’s not the woman who is desiring and/or initiating this FLR “stuff”, not initially at least. Its him not you. But why? Why does he have this “weird” need?
Trust me, it’s not at all about you, at least not in the way you are letting your first emotional instincts take you to with this first response judgement. Its not about your letting him down in any way and not being the good enough wife or girlfriend. It is not any sort of indictment on your performance in bed or your abilities as a wife. It’s all about something deeply mysterious which is occurring in that pea sized misshapen man head of his. I think this type of thing has always been the continual misunderstanding between a man and a woman. They just operate and think differently than us in the department of sex, sexuality and relationships is the best deeply thought-out answer that I can provide. We are just typically two different creatures when it comes to this and we both have a hard time figuring the other one out.
We have wasted so many fights, so many marriages and so many therapy sessions trying to address and understand this. With FLR in particular, why does a man crave to be spanked? Why does a man crave to have his junk locked away? Why does a man want us to subjugate him? It’s frankly bizarre stuff for us women when we first hear of it. We just can’t wrap our heads around it. But the truth of the matter is that neither can he, not really. It’s just how the DNA in many men got put together. Part of it I think, is how tightly bound men are with displaying their real inner emotions. The fact that they are expected to present this stone wall facade of the always in charge and the always under total emotional control. It’s how they were brought up and shown how to behave as a “real man”. It has to be sooo utterly exhausting to live life that way is my personal thought. I think “that's” what partially drives men to this need for things like FLR in their lives. It’s a controlled way for them to open up to the women in their lives, to themselves. They can let our their emotions under this guise. They can relax and not be the in charge person they are expected to be outside of the home and perhaps normally within the home. This is them letting their hair down so to speak.
They also frankly just like weird kinky type sex, can be the other augmenting answer to the one above.
But whatever the real answer is to this age old question of why are men so different than us, it’s not that we as women are failing them some how. It’s not that we aren't good enough as we currently exist. It’s just that we are put together differently. Our thoughts and our emotional processes are just different than theirs. Sexuality just means something a bit different to us both. We respond to various stimulus in different ways than do men. The really cool thing about FLR, I think, is that it is a pathway for women and men to come closer together on the topic of sex and relationships and emotions. Through the concepts of who is behaving dominantly and who is behaving submissively and what that also means emotionally to be the dominant and the submissive in the relationship. Living this in an FLR lifestyle subtly shifts the dynamics of what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman. I think where we both end up is somewhere more closely in the middle, that’s the real beauty of FLR, not the control and not the everything else.
Anyhow, a very unsubstantial answer to a very complex question and to what is a very valid emotional response that many women might ask themselves when presented with the desire of their man to engage in FLR activity. If it was easy to answer, the relationship counselors would have been out of business years ago I guess. I would really be interested what other women on this site might have to say about this. What is your whole take on why are we (Women) are never good enough for men? Please comment. No one wants to feel that they are broken or not good enough. I know that is not at all your (men's) intent or feelings when you try to bring this “need” up with your wife or girlfriend but unfortunately that’s how many might feel. This would be a wonderful thread for all of the woman readers to comment on. In particular your opinion is the one I want to hear. Men are just weird - I already know that :)
One final word. I use the word weird here frequently. It was all very weird especially in the early goings. But all I have to say is that now that I have been in the mix with this whole FLR business for many years - is that its still weird, but a very enjoyable and good weird at the end of the day for me. It works and it has strengthened my relationship. It was never a question if I was not good enough for him. He just wanted me to to be a bit more weird with him :)
-AJ
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that submissive men are weird, we love our women so much and we express our love by submitting to them, we are saying with our actions and words that we love you so much that we want to obey you, serve you, give you our hearts, bodies, time and effort, all as an expression of how much we adore and worship you.
ReplyDeleteThank you Mz Kaylee for this post. This is something that comes up often between my wife and I. If I express an interest in a new or different activity she will feel that when things are "going well" between us I throw a wrench in the mix, asking for more, as she sees it. For me, it is the opposite. When things are going well I feel more comfortable talking with her about difficult things like spanking for example. I am working on myself, learning to tell her when I am happy and content more often than I do. She is a great woman.
ReplyDeleteI will be sharing this post with her today.
AJ, I apologize for not giving you proper credit for your post. It was a mistake on my part and I do appreciate the information you share. My wife also said she enjoyed reading this post. Thanks again.
DeleteThis is between the wife and husband, each to his/her own, not up for discussion. My wife was brought up by a single Mom, her Dad walked out. Her Mom dated, never married, but told her daughter there comes a time that the wife must take charge. I was told this prior to our marriage, I was told that meant spankings, I looked at her, said nothing. A couple of days later I said I agreed, loved her too much to let her go. A month after being married I as she said acted like a little boy, my way or no way. Asked if I remember what I agreed to, I said yes. Not in the bedroom, but the front room, she gave me a spanking that shocked me, really hurt, worse she pulled down my pants, underpants, scolding me. Afterwards facing the wall she asked if I was going to be a good little boy, I said yes and that the spanking hurt. Good she said, want to change your mind, I said no, it was for my good and would not back out. The last comment she made, was if I'm a bad little boy, she is not my wife but my Mommy and will be addressed that way. I stood facing the wall for a good half hour. Mommy has found the bath brush does wonders, and I do as told, no back talk. This is how we keep our marriage strong, could care less if others don't agree. Jack
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely 1000% correct that this is all ultimately between a specific couple. Its ultimately what they are comfortable with, what they agree to, what works for them and what they enjoy as a couple - absolutely. The purpose of this post was not to pass or assign any sort of judgement on either side of the fence nor to say what is right and wrong as that doesn't exist in this case. Everyone has different wants and needs and ways of expressing them. What the post was about was to express the thought that for the majority of women (and I think I can safely assume that “my gut feel” statistic on that) but certainly not all women, that the concepts behind and the needs of their man asking for FLR in their lives is a bit foreign and initially very alarming to them when they first hear of it. It’s just not the normal vanilla concepts that they mostly likely signed up for when they got married or took on their boyfriend. So when this bomb, so to speak, is dropped in their laps, what is going on in their heads and how do they react? How do they initially react with their thoughts and actions? What is the evolution process (and I am thinking mostly emotionally here) they then go through first as a woman and then as a couple for them to rationalize and justify and come to peace with the need to proceed with FLR concepts in their relationship? How do they lose the fear and their feelings of inadequacy? How do they overcome their feelings of things just not being good enough with the existing form of the relationship (or themselves) and that therefore something must be broken? What do their men say and do to help alleviate these fears and concerns? What is the path and methodology they eventually find to move forward with peace and understanding?
For most couples and in particular the female which I am trying to address with this post, I don’t think that this sort of relationship in initially intuitive to them and can be as result, very frightening. No matter what side that you are on in this discussion - man desiring or women just learning of this want/need, its useful for both sides to try to try and understand what's going on with the other sides thoughts and emotions when this situation presents. What we gather here, in what I hope is a friendly and constructive discussion (such as your post) will help future couples on how to work through this subject. It’s certainly not easy to drop this need on your spouse, but it’s also equally not easy for that spouse to then deal with it. Sometimes just having the awareness that this can be a difficult process for both sides is very helpful. Change is difficult and this I think would qualify as a large change for many couples.
BTW when I say weird, I am not trying to be offensive and speak with degradation to men. I was trying to keep it a bit light, but if weird comes across as inflammatory for whatever reason, please just substitute “foreign” or “not like us” or something along those lines. So no offense was intended with that word. One person’s “weird” is another person’s “just absolutely normal”. What is normal? What is weird? But anyhow….. please continue to express what's in your heart and mind. Its a learning and evolution process for everyone on this blog. No one is an expert, certainly not me, and just acquiring additional knowledge and understanding goes a long way to getting what is desired.
Wonderful post. I have never been able to quite figure out my husband, and in that area I sometimes feel inadequate. I thought we had a good marriage over 10 years ago when my husband brought up the whole idea, first FLR and then using chastity and denial. He wasn't unhappy but wanted to "give it a try." It sounded weird but also like I would benefit, and he did have a masturbation habit I disliked. Our FLR grew in the ways we both shaped it into. I wondered why a health man would want his wife to limit his orgasms and define (more accurately, redefine) intimacy? I also wondered why a man would want his freedom to be limited by his wife at a time the kids were getting older and he would have more time for fun activities he liked. By the way, he still gets to do some fun activities, when Mistress Joan allows if of course lol. Basically, I saw he was so happy, and I was happy. So,"whys" became less important. Besides orgasm control, money, chores, and food shopping were are things I controlled or assigned. So many things became sexualized. I can't believe how much he enjoyed my teases for everything from shaving his head to picking out his panties. Lastly, why would a man want to be limited to a few orgasms a year by his wife? He did, and this year I decided that I will only allow three full orgasms, four if he is good. He could have had two chastity breaks this year and didn't want them. Yes, he's never been this happy before. I think "weird" is as good a word as any to describe some of our fun activities. I do think men are different today and are in better touch with their feelings. I think women are changing and becoming more assertive. This all makes FLR more attractive to both men and women. My husband told as we started this new year he recognizes me as the "absolute authority" in our marriage. It's kind of scary and fun.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Joan
Thank you Joan for adding your thoughts and perspective on this topic, its greatly appreciated and insightful. There is no one size fits all on how this occurs and how it is handled and experienced by each partner.
ReplyDeleteI am enjoying the discussion on this topic. For me, I did not feel broken or not good enough when my husband brought to my attention that he wanted me to be dominant with him and take control of his orgasms. A big part of it was that he communicated it in a way that made me understand it was something he wanted try and that it would benefit me also. He made it clear that it was not that he did not want to orgasm with me but more that he thought it would be thrilling to give me an orgasm while I deny him one. Agree with AJ and others, that it all sounded weird, but I was open to give it a try. I could tell my husband put a lot of thought into what he was going to tell me and I could tell it was not easy for him to confess his feelings. It actually made me feel good that he opened up to me with his deepest desires.
ReplyDeleteIt did take me awhile to get comfortable with denying him orgasm and knowing when to allow one and when to refrain, but from day one, I never gave up that control. What I struggled with the most was that he wanted to be dominated and controlled 24/7. I was not very dominant by nature and I did not know what to do. It was also hard trying to fit domination into all the other things I was doing with work and kids. In the beginning I just didn't have the interest or commitment to do it as much as he wanted. I also struggled with the concept of punishment. He wanted to be punished so I often wondered if he would neglect doing things just to be punished and therefore, was it really punishment? It was frustrating to set rules only to have them broke or ignored. It took a long time for me to understand the complex dynamic of needing to enforce rules and issue real punishments (not fantasy punishments) in order to get consistent performance from my husband. Eventually, through the help and persistence of my husband, I learned that I needed to truly embrace dominance and put work into being dominate in order to benefit greatly from it. It really requires a complete change in perspective.
This process took several years and was filled with ups and downs and lots of frustration, as well as lots of fun and excitement. I never felt that I was not good enough. It was more about not understanding the dynamics of WLM and what to do. Looking back on everything, I credit my husband with getting the WLM to work. He was patient and persistent with me and always presented ideas to me in a way that showed how the ideas would also benefit me. There were many times where I just wanted to give up and I think a few times he was ready to throw the towel in. However, whenever we paused or went away from WLM, there always still remained and underlying tone of his submission and my dominance, and we always eventually talked and went back to it.
I was dating, the girl I did marry, but at 20 something she still lived with her Mother, house rules. I knew the rules, but when faced with the punishment, Love took over. Brought her home late one to many times, the next day, Saturday, went to say I was sorry to her Mother. My girlfriend was very quiet, squirming on the chair, and that is when her Mother told me she spanked her daughter and that I agreed to the house rules. I said yes, well get to the bedroom, down to your underpants and wait for me. I did as told, but I removed my underpants and stood naked, erect when the mother walked in. Very good she said, safes me time. Oh that little thing will be gone shortly. I went over her lap, was soon pleading, promising to follow the rules, but she kept up the spanking until I was a total mess. I went to pick up my clothes, she said leave them, with a grip on my arm led to the kitchen, faced the wall, I was a total mess. We got married a couple of months later, a gift from her mother was a large hair brush. My wife applied it several months later, and to make the first spanking ever worse, her mother was visiting and watched how her daughter pulled down my pants, underpants scolded me like a naughty little boy. She spanked me soundly, once again a total mess, I faced the wall, while the two talked. I admit spankings I need sometimes, I accept. Jack
ReplyDeleteHello AJ . This is a wonderful post that certainly illustrates the difficulty most women have in accepting this lifestyle . Since this is a discussion targeted for women I would like to interject a small thought that I believe is primary to this discussion and allow the female readers to consider a different perspective . This “weird” lifestyle could be a lot easier to accept if women begin to realize that husbands introducing this lifestyle are simply coming to terms with the truth . We are tired ,exhausted and frustrated in trying to swim against the societal current that tells us that men are supposed to be in charge of our homes . We all know this cannot and will not work ! The real and natural order is found in a FLR . A successful home and family must have a strong woman at the helm with a strong and willing man to follow her guidance . Submissive men have simply realized this and are trying to end the conflict and find happiness in submission and harmony.Now , for this to work, Women have to be willing to look inward and admit that the idea or female submission goes against her natural order. I bet if women start with this thought a FLR might be a little easier to accept.
ReplyDeleteTake care
John Dalton
John - While I agree that men are coming to terms with the "truth" when they bring the lifestyle to their wife, your explanation of the truth sounds more like a fairy tale. Sure a few guys, such as yourself, feel this way but let's be honest. most guys are trying to convince their wife to dominate them because of the erotic rush they experience from submission. Most guys start out wanting domination for their own selfish desires. The truth they are coming to terms with is that they crave to be dominated. It is through the wife's control and training that they learn how to turn their submission into a sustainable lifestyle that benefits the woman. Also, it sounds like your last statement is presuming that without FLR, women are submissive. That is not true in todays world. I've never felt submissive. Before WLM, my marriage was a marriage of equals. Women simply need to be open minded and understanding when their husband/boyfriend confesses his desire to submit to her. We also need to get the word out that submission doe not equal weakness and that WLM/FLR is a a fun and positive lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteMz Kaylee
DeleteAfter reading your comments over a few times I found it hard to see a difference in our opinions. I just believe that the idea of a FLR could be a lot easier for women to accept if they first put away the false narrative of a traditional marriage. I think many men are willing to embrace the strong woman of today but are often rejected by such women who are still looking for men that meet the more traditional standards.
Take care
John Dalton
No, our opinions are very different. I do not agree with either of your comments as you are expressing outdated views about women and generalizations that I don't believe apply to most people today. I appreciate that you are expressing your thoughts. I am just stating that we are not saying the same things.
DeleteMz Kaylee , as my words indicate above , I do not believe that Female submission is natural or even acceptable for women in the present or the past .What I am trying to communicate is that it is difficult for women even in our current generation to accept the concept of a FLR or WLM . No one knows this better than me as I have just experienced the end of my marriage of seven years because my wife simply could not accept the idea of being married to a man that adored her and wanted to live in submission to her.Yes women are changing and the world is changing but I am speaking of the societal expectations that are part of women of the past as well as the present .Certainly you must realize that your not the norm ! I would suppose that is why you have embraced this cause even as I have . I hope to encourage women to be bold in their relationship and explore the true nature of men and understand their need and desire for dominance . Yes, I suppose most men start with desires that may be of a selfish nature in the beginning but isn’t this desire the very core and basis for a FLR ?
DeleteTake care
John Dalton
John – I am sorry that things did not work out with your marriage. I know you were trying your best to make it work.
DeleteRegarding your comments, the flaw (in my opinion) in what you are saying, is that you are presuming that the natural order is for men to be submissive and women to be dominant. I do not buy into that. WLM/FLR is a great type of relationship, but it is not for everyone. You referred to traditional marriage as a false narrative, but it is only false if one partner does not buy into it. There are many people who are perfectly happy in a traditional marriage, and that is fine. I will also add that the definition of traditional marriage is evolving and can vary by culture. I’d say nowadays an equal partnership or the man taking the lead could both fall into to that traditional category. You seem to be not recognizing that there are marriage of equals or even marriage with the wife is naturally dominant but not a FLR. You say men are tired of being in charge. Maybe you are, but there are many men who would disagree with you. The point to all this is that you are not recognizing that there are many flavors to people and relationships. You want the world to change for what you want and that is just not going to happen. If a woman wants and desires a man to be in charge, then she is not likely going to change her view and WLM is not for her. You said your marriage ended because she could not accept your submission. Why is that you framed this as she is the one who caused it? One could flip it around and say it ended because you could not accept being the dominant partner. The right answer is that you both, wanted something different and there was no compromise that could work where you would both be happy.
I can agree with you that in general it is still difficult for women to accept WLM/FLR. However, the solution is not that women should reject the idea of being submissive. Most women today do not feel submissive and those that do, are probably not going to change. If you are holding onto the view that FLR is the natural order of things, then my guess is that you will only find happiness in a relationship where the female holds the same exact view as you. There is nothing wrong with that, but just understand that the more tightly you define what a FLR is and who the ideal female is, the less pool of women are available to connect with. Great discussion and would love to hear others weigh in on these concepts.
Mz Kaylee , it took me some time and thought to respond. I appreciate your views and have given much consideration to your comments especially as to how they relate to my personal life. Thank you!
DeleteAt this late date , the discussion has moved on and my words and thoughts may never be read except for the newbies making their way through the blog. Either way I feel like I can add value to the conversation and press home an idea that I think is very relevant and foundational to the growth of our movement. I have great respect for the words you and AJ have presented but I still feel like in my generalized tone your missing the core elements of what I am trying to relate. Your comment “ You want the world to change for what you want and that is just not going to happen “ . In fact , this blog as well as the more recent comments from the female audience actually supports my views. The world is changing but not necessarily the way I want but rather in the way of natural order . Women are embracing the concepts of a FLR at a greater pace with every year . There is little to no resistance from men because men are naturally motivated to please and gain affirmation from the woman he loves. The only real barrier is the patriarchal model that is part of every woman and man even in today’s society. Most Women are naturally programmed to want and desire a strong and powerful man . Most men are naturally programmed to desire a equally strong and powerful woman. The man naturally wants to chase after her attention and please her , the woman naturally wants to be chased and quickly therefore learns she is in charge . The beginning of FLR is simply the the acceptance of this natural order. Men love the lifestyle because they know in their hearts that there is no way they can control the woman he loves and desires. Woman can enjoy the lifestyle once she accepts that the man of her dreams is only fulfilled in service to her . This is the sticking point that most women just cannot accept and therefore reject the idea of a FLR. It just does not fit the narrative that they have been taught from birth and is contrary to what they consider normal. The man of her dreams riding in on the white horse never scrubbed the floors to make her smile. It is truly a hard sell!
Take care
John Dalton
A nice vision John but I still think you are failing to recognize that the world is made up of many different flavors of people. For you and people similar to you, the natural order means one things and for others the natural order means something else. There are 57 followers of my blog. That's hardly a blip on the map.
DeleteAs MZ Kaylee points out quite correctly, most marriages in America are not those of our 50’s/60’s/70’s or even the 80’s of our fathers and mothers. Dad is no longer the sole bread winner and Mom is no longer just banging the pots and pans and changing the diapers. It’s been very much a marriage of equals for quite some time as most households have been largely forced to go to 2 breadwinners in the household to keep up with the economic times, at the very least, as a reason to do so. We’ll breeze by women’s equal rights and other deeper topics to explain that shift more further. In many cases today, women are out performing their men in terms of income brought into the household and number of hours worked OUTSIDE OF the home. Although I think there has been a shift in recent years to make the domestic side of households more equally balanced between the partners, I believe it is still the wife who is still taking the brunt of that activity despite all of the out of home gains she has enjoyed in recent years. So not only are women still doing the brunt of the household work they are also frequently doing as much as their man outside of the home in work as well. It is therefore very reasonable to assume, I think, that the stresses and rigors imposed on women can be greater than those experienced by men in today’s society. I think the big differences between those two pictures is that unlike men, women have been allowed by society to show and experience their emotions, and as such, have had a much needed outlet to vent and to breathe these stresses as opposed to most men. But they are every bit as exhausted as men when they come home from their outside work to begin doing the necessary domestic work at home. This is a relevant framework to keep in mind when discussing FLR/WLM or whatever we want to acronym it.
ReplyDeleteGiven the picture above, the benefits of FLR are obvious, at least to my mind. Number one, it has the ability to even out the large lingering discrepancy which women experience over men in the domestic tasks at home. It can be the domestic equalizer in the very least, and in the best scenario, largely remove this tiring workload burden from the shoulders of women. So this should be one, very large, real, non sexual fantasy based reason why women may wish to take more than an exasperated look at their husbands when FLR is suggested or hinted at. On the side of men, FLR can definitely provide that much needed and missing emotional/stress outlet that most are currently missing as home in more traditional based relationships. This is their biggest gain, whether they see it that way or not, with FLR. It provides them with the means to calmly let the steam out and decompose from the rigors of their work. As an added benefit to both sides, their sex live dramatically improve and much for the better. The types of sex which are enjoyed in an FLR lifestyle further enhance a mans ability to display emotion and to experience emotion in a controlled an “acceptable and defined manner” in the home while simultaneously delivering on the quantity of sex and sexualized behavior which his psychy has always craved and needed more of. Women too, I think (I know) are able to achieve a far greater enjoyable frequency of sex - which they can throttle to their needs with this dynamic in place than without it. When a women throttles sex in a conventional marriage she is labeled frigid and its a negative experience for the man and the woman. When a women throttles sex in an FLR, she is just acting correctly and expectedly as the dominant and the one in rightful control. The FLR man gets off by that denial sexually even though he is not getting off in the clinical sense of those words, so both get what they need. The sex experienced in an FLR is tailored to the needs and enjoyment of the women first and then the man, not the other way around. I expect, look forward to, and mostly experience and ENJOY nightly orgasms from my husband. He, believe me, is in sexual nirvana to just deliver it to me with his mouth and tongue, and there is no expectation of his penis ever getting unlocked and let out to play (justified). The form of sex which he (enthusiastically and joyfully) receives has mostly taken other forms outside of his penis and his receiving his own orgasms. Women also get to be the aggressors in sex and around the domestic side of the home, if they feel like it, which is also a very nice stress reliever to them. FLR can be, if properly employed and maintained a very beneficial tool in the modern marriage. Its the great equalizer.
ReplyDeleteBUT, you have to get their first. And the first step is that initial conversation that your have with your spouse or significant other that you are interested in this type of activity. That’s the big hurdle, the sell. That’s what this specific blog post is about. If you go into that sell sounding like its the woman’s fault for not instantly excepting “the experiment” and that she’s somehow at fault for not immediately embracing it, then that’s going to be the deal breaker, and would anyone be surprised by the outcome of that type of sell if it were presented to them? They already have in many cases the short end of the stick in terms of workload and stress as opposed to their penis owning relationship mates. You need to offer them something tangible AND BELIEVABLE in your sales routine, for it to work. If they have already bought 2 lemon cars from you, why wouldn’t they be expecting a third? You have to demonstrate both through deed and action, as well as the appropriate words, that this will be their dream car and not the next lemon. What we are talking here about is those “appropriate words”. What are the magic words that other FLR enjoying couples have used to get where they have wanted to be? What is the correct tack to take with your sales pitch? What words actually result in a sale? What pre-conditions help the sale? I know that when I look at that next car, I look at my previous sales experiences that I might of had with that specific car dealer and even more importantly how well they honored the terms of the sales contact. How many good vs bad experiences I enjoyed with the dealership and the car is what gets them the next sale from me (or not).
ReplyDeleteIf you make your pitch defensively or in any way insinuate this is her problem and that she needs to take it or else, your doomed. She already has enough on the her plate. She doesn't need extra baggage that doesn’t benefit her. That’s what she is worried about. What are you going to do and say to change that is your task and the point of this discussion.
My apologies if its appearing that I’m starting to rant a bit, and this comment I guess is going to further that rant a bit more. I also apologize for changing the direction of the original post, slightly, with my my recent comments about how to have the talk instead of what women experience when the talk is put to them in the first place and how they cope with that. But I think we can agree the slightly altered topic intersects to a large degree with the same original discussion. The reason for the slight course change and the reason for my ranting a bit here is my frustration with who comments on the site and who does not. My initial post was designed as an attempt to draw in more female blog readers into the various discussions of Mz Kaylee’s wonderful blog. Its frustrating to have such a wonderful blog which has been out there for so many years now and which has been provided such a much needed environment for the healthy discussion of FLR/WLM topics and to only have men posting comments and articles 99% of the time, and the same handful of men on top of that. Not that those aren't appreciated. I applaud them for participating and expressing themselves as they do have valuable and legitimate voice to all of this, but I know and I am sure Mz Kaylee agrees ( I apologize again as I am speaking without her permission and input when I say that - but I am guessing that she MIGHT be saying that at times), that it would sure be beneficial for more women to post in a blog which exists to explore the benefits and the in’s and out’s of a female or wife led/ female led marriage/relationship. Their absence largely makes this a lot of this one dimensional discussions. It’ important to hear both sides of the coin to get the most value and an accurate picture and it cant be the same 2-3 opinions from the same 2-3 women. You’ve already heard us speak many times and you already know how we think and why we think the way we do. We’re getting to be stale old hat to these discussions as are the same 10 men who might comment regularly. We know there are many so many more of you all out there and reading with real and valued things to say on the topics of FLR relationships. I am not ranting just about this one which I started in this case. It’s all of the great topics which Mz Kaylee has graciously shared with us all. It takes a lot of time and effort to care about this blog and this lifestyle for her to continue with her well thought out, well written and well presented posts. They deserve some broader participation.
ReplyDeleteFrom my own real life experiences I KNOW that this type of lifestyle is very real, very wonderful and very beneficial for both the man and the wife/significant other. So why aren't more of these women, who surely must be reading this site, with their significant others, not weighing in and contributing with their own experiences and thoughts??? You don’t have to have experience in the lifestyle to participate. It’s very useful to hear from couples who are just first peeking in through the windows and seeing some of this for the first time or two. What are you seeing and hearing when you look in with those virgin FLR ears and what aren't you seeing and hearing which might help you to understand the topics and the lifestyle? We really do miss your input (as well as more men) and it would add so much to all of these conversations to hear from you as well. I just speak frequently here and with a loud mouth, but that doesn’t make me some sort of FLR expert. You don’t need to be an expert to participate. I know from the profile section at least , there are many more of you out there with valuable real life FLR relationship experiences - right? Sometimes, sometimes…., I just get the feeling that I am in the presence of a roomful of drooling men with their dicks in their hands, who are just living in complete FLR wannabe fantasy world, i.e. they don’t have a real world FLR partner sitting next to them. It all exists just in their wishful heads. I really really truly hope that this isn’t the case as there is so much for couples to really benefit from this blog and this lifestyle. It not just fantasy and it is real! But it’s only as real as we make it, and without a wider perspective and wider range of expressed thoughts it can feel very phony here at times. The perception of phoniness does not help sell “the product” especially to other women out there whom might be entertaining this lifestyle when they come visit the site. I know that there really must be many true new wannabe couples, who are genuinely looking for the reality and benefits of this type of relationship. There are plenty of other sites which serve of fantasy fodder and this isn't one of them.
ReplyDeleteMz Kaylee I sincerely apologize. Thanks for the truly wonderful venue you have provided for so long to all, including myself. I’ll just shut-up and listen now, and take my deserved punishment from the comments to come…. At least I might dredge up some new reader activity this way. I know this isn’t phony with you. My thoughts words and opinions, are just that and do not reflect on Mz Kaylee.
I was hesitant to respond since Ms. AJ said she's particularly interested in the women reader's opinions, but I can't hold off any longer.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I'd like to thank Ms. AJ profusely for writing this article. Anyone, subby or otherwise, would be lucky to have a partner with such brilliance and insight.
My favorite phrase, which sums up the points nicely for me, was "It’s all about something deeply mysterious which is occurring in that pea sized misshapen man head of his. I think this type of thing has always been the continual misunderstanding between a man and a woman. They just operate and think differently than us in the department of sex, sexuality and relationships...".
That rings so true to me as to be almost painful. Yes, I don't fully understand why I find the idea of FLR so exciting. I suspect there are multiple reasons, certainly including the one Ms. AJ highlights: as a reaction to society's expectation that men be responsible and in control of their emotions at all times. I might add a few more possible partial answers:
Maybe thousands of years of tribal and militaristic life have evolved men to be more comfortable in a hierarchy of power, where lines of authority are clear and inviolable. Speaking for myself, I thought it was likely that an explicit hierarchy at home would result in less conflict and smoother daily life, regardless of who was on top. One incentive for her to try it was to offer her the lead role. Certainly it would NOT have worked if I had suggested the reverse.
There's also the male kinkiness that Ms. AJ alludes to. I hoped to offer my wife my honest efforts at complete obedience and servitude in exchange for her support in greater access to worship her body that I admire so greatly. I was eager to offer foot, leg and back massages, pedicures and of course the oral services that subby men are known for. (Alas, this expectation is where our trial efforts failed, to my sadness.)
I'm sure there's also some hormonal aspect. Talk about weird. Which of us knows or understands exactly how those chemical concoctions are affecting our brains and behavior. Given the well known drop in subby attentiveness post orgasm, though, there's obviously some strong biochemical influence.
I find the "continual misunderstanding between a man and a woman" to be one of life's great tragedies. Any ideas we can explore together to bridge that gap could lead to big improvements in the quality of life for both men and women. FLR could be one of those ideas, at least for some couples, but getting there requires work for both parties.
That's probably enough from me for now. Thanks again for the great article Ms. AJ and thank you Mz Kaylee for maintaining this excellent site.
Thank you AJ for trying to drum up support! Yes, it would be fantastic to hear from women, including those who are new to FLR/WLM or thinking about it. Hearing different views and opinions helped me learn over the years. I did not like as much, the blogs or websites where everyone preached the same mantra and always agreed with each other so please do not be afraid to share your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteMy husband tony and I are somewhat different, possibly because it is the second marriage for us both and we were pretty clear on what we wanted. I knew I wanted a relationship where I could end virtually any argument in my favor by using corporal punishment. A Disciplinary Wives Club marriage. The rest of it -- eventually dominance in all areas of our life -- came as we progressed and I realized the many benefits of being a Queen with a Knight at her beck and call. So with tony I never experienced feeling I was not enough. I had plenty of that in my first marriage. With tony I was at least somewhat dominant from the outset, rather than being cajoled into it by my husband, as happens in most wife-led marriages.
ReplyDeleteTrina
Trina, I have met many women that were “ somewhat dominant “ that I would not have ever imagined could have accepted a WLM . In fact , I have known many women that were absolutely dominant that would have probably scoffed at the idea. Do you have an opinion as to why you so easily accepted the concept. I understand that you were looking for a relationship that you could end an argument with corporal punishment but how was that desire formed ? I am curious because your outlook seems very different than most.
DeleteTake care
John Dalton
Trina - thank you for sharing and I am glad you found happiness in your second marriage!
DeleteMy brothers were spanked a lot and it clearly improved their behavior. My parents lectured the girls but did not spank us. I had the urge to thrash my first husband on many occasions, but I knew he wouldn't allow it. I was so sick of arguing and I couldn't think of a better way to win. I made sure to marry a spanko.
ReplyDeleteHello Trina,
ReplyDeleteI find your and Tony’s story really intriguing. The implementation of FLR within your relationship and the reasoning and your own and Tony’s life experiences behind it are so different than my own and that of my husbands, so its really nice to get this refreshing perspective. The spanko part of your story is really interesting to me. Spanking was not a big part of my upbringing nor my husbands. For whatever reason, my husband was either born with or over time developed, a physical need for that in our relationship, with him as the receiver. As our FLR has matured, I have learned to provide him with this needed dimension in the relationship in the form of pleasure spankings for his reward and with disciplinary spanking for when he screws up or just needs some general realignment. This was not an easy ask of me as it was so foreign to my upbringing and to my own kinks at the time. It didn’t exist at any level in my catalog. But again, he explicitly asked for and verbalized his need and desire for this in the relationship, so I began to accommodate it, playfully at first, and then as we advanced, as actual reward and correction within our FLR. I have found that I have developed my own degree of need and and enjoyment in providing him these spankings, which continues to be a bit mentally and emotionally challenging to me. At times I feel a bit guilty and torn for “enjoying” this activity, especially when performing his punishment spankings with the belt. With me specifically, there has most definitely developed a sexual component to these spankings which had never existed before. I can and frequently do get quite aroused now giving him his spankings both for pleasure (this mentally is much easier for me to accept) but more to my inner conflict, most definitely his punishment spankings as well. When he is dancing around at the end of my belt, I find that quite hot. I also find it extremely (extremely) hot where emotionally he goes while in the process of being spanked and immediately afterwards. He is so emotionally open/drained and expressive with me. His emotions flow so freely to me after he has been spanked. After our punishment sessions, we always conclude those sessions with his mouth between my legs while I sit in the chair that he was just recently bent over while getting his spanking. I gently stroke his hair and calmly and quietly reassure him. We do this as a way of concluding his punishment, his period of atonement is over and he is completely forgiven. He is also demonstrating that he has “forgiven me” for administering his punishment. So its a means of showing us both that all is in balance once again between us. It’s a calming and uniquely rewarding experience for us both in the end, and not a negative one. I keep my husband in strict chastity and strictly control his frequency of orgasms as many of you now know. During one of these post spanking sessions, while his head was between my legs, he spontaneously erupted with his own orgasm. This type of orgasm for him has only happened a handful of times in our entire marriage, under any circumstance, but the fact that this occurred in this specific context (and so far just in that one instance) was incredibly erotic to me. But I also think its a good glimpse of some of what might be going on his mind when these sessions occur. Fascinating! I think this is the element which really excites me deep down. The fact that I have this power and control with him to get him to this state of mind, for whatever reason its become very arousing to me. With this in mind I can relate to the spanko elements which exist in your relationship.
Thanks for sharing and I find it emotionally comforting to hear that others have this element in their relationships, maybe in slightly different context to my own, but still present. I find that helpful and re-assuring.
AJ,
ReplyDeleteI think we have arrived at similar places from different directions. I consider corporal punishment to be correction, so I have no feelings of guilt in making my man a better husband through the administration of painful consequences. Nor have I ever felt guilty in enjoying the power I wield. Like you, we end our sessions with him licking me. We consider it the thanks he owes me for correcting him, while you consider it mutual forgiveness. It is an extremely intimate moment. I do unlock him for punishment, and sometimes slap his cock and balls as well as attend to his behind. Like your husband, he gets very hard while servicing me, and he has been known to leak semen like during a ruined orgasm, though he has not had a full ejaculation and pulsating orgasm without some stimulation, which I do not allow during the aftercare of punishment. After he has brought me to orgasm with his tongue, I often put him back across my knee and caress his behind with Arnica gel to soothe the burning. This also we find extremely intimate. Best of all, he is the perfect husband for the next several days, pampering me incessantly. The "bottom line" for us is that spanking works!
Trina
AJ,
ReplyDelete"The fact that I have this power and control with him to get him to this state of mind, for whatever reason its become very arousing to me."
I still find it fascinating, and a tremendous turn on, that my husband didn't want two open "honeymoon sessions" this year. More frequent orgasms in 2021, which ended up being more orgasms than the previous year, seemed to be unappreciated by him (and I don't mean this in a bad way). He's grown to like orgasm control and denial which we had been doing more than a decade. Now we'll work up to my husband waiting 10 to 12+ weeks for a full orgasm. I'm not going to get upset if he experiences leakage or a ruined orgasm from time to time (especially since I've become skilled in teasing him), but he's told me he just prefers to hear "no" from me. Luckily for him I'm not like some cruel mistress you read about who might take advantage of him and never let him have an orgasm. Like you say about your husband, after a teasing session or even some discipline, my man becomes the perfect husband. Punishment, while having a kinky element to it, has also benefitted my husband. It might only be that he is happier but I've seen him grow and his career excel. Yet, when I demand obedience he is obedient. We had planned a cruise this year but covid concerns us both and we passed on it. You meet nice strangers on cruises. I contemplated outing Phil on a cruise as a submissive husband (under the right circumstances) to give him a kinky thrill. I understand this is both a threat my husband fears and a kink he would enjoy. A few years ago on another cruise a young woman gave me the highest complement about Phil and I eluded to the fact that I was the head of the household. I told her I found this the best for us and our children. I couldn't quite "out" him as submissive, and it wouldn't mean much to someone who is a stranger, but I think I will in the future.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment anonymously. I'm a little old fashioned and worry about potential impacts to our jobs from discovery of our lifestyle, as fun as it is.
Joan
Thank you very sincerely Joan for commenting again! Thanks for opening up further on the dynamics of your specific FLR relationship and how you have both choosen to implement it in your marriage. Its very interesting and refreshing to get yet another womans personal take on the whole FLR topic. Like me, it sounds that you dont quite understand why he has this need to be rationed, but in the end that doesnt really matter. The proof is in the pudding as they say, or in our cases, the lack of his pudding. I hope to hear more from you in the future on other blog topics to keep the expansion of thoughts going. There are so many different flavors and variations of FLR and it truly is fascinating to hear them all. Knowledge is power, and the more we can openly and honestly discuss these matters on this wonderful blog really benefits all who come here. Its a place of learning and truth, and I think this always has great value esp as other women come here to weigth the merits of this within their own relationships.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to give one more shoutout to Trina, Joan and of course Ms Kaylee, for providing their comments on this specific post. The "discussion" we are having here in these comments is infinetely more interesting and informative than the original post. I encourage more unheard of readers, esp more women, to keep adding in their 2 cents as that is what makes this all so worthwhile. Titallation we can get elsewhere, an honest discussion is what we get here. Thanks again.
ReplyDeleteYes, Great discussion!
DeleteMs. Kaylee and AJ,
DeleteThank you so much for your kind words and the information you provided. The short answer is that my husband and I are enjoying the FLR experience. I'm certainly feeling very good about challenging him with new tasks and goals this year. He is far more than willing participant in our FLR fun, he's an instigator, and has never seemed to be so happy. One or two orgasms a year...hmmmm.
Joan
Joan - For those who have never dipped their toes into orgasm denial, it is hard to understand that guys actually love it. Even guys new to it are often very apprehensive about it but then like your husband, overtime they become addicted to it. Similar to your husband, my husband likes it better when I tell him 'no' when he begs for an orgasm. In the beginning shorter denial periods usually work best because it does take some training for guys to handle the denial. However, over time they become better with the denial and begin to enjoy the thrill of the tease and non-stop arousal. Many guys that have posted comments on this blog have expressed that they want no orgasms. However, I think it is good to allow a few (at least 1 or 2) a year because it reminds them of what they are missing and resets the whole denial experience. I find that after an orgasm, the next few times I tease my husband, it is harder for him to hold back his orgasm. In fact on rare occasions, I've given him 2 or 3 orgasms one week after the other. This totally blows his mind because he starts to get used to orgasms again and then I go back to long-term denial. I enjoy challenging him like that and it shows him that I truly am in control of his orgasms.
ReplyDeleteI caged my husband's cock and restricted his orgasms for one reason-- so he would stop looking at porn and masturbating constantly. I had no idea of all the other benefits! And not just for me. He absolutely loves being teased and denied and swears that it improves his brain chemistry and gives him boundless energy, which is quite obvious to me as he does chore after chore!
ReplyDeleteI caged my husband's cock and restricted his orgasms for one reason-- so he would stop looking at porn and masturbating constantly. I had no idea of all the other benefits! And not just for me. He absolutely loves being teased and denied and swears that it improves his brain chemistry and gives him boundless energy, which is quite obvious to me as he does chore after chore!
ReplyDeleteThat was a very well thought plan. Great benefits. Maybe cut him off almost permanently?
ReplyDeleteExcellent motivation